Report - Marseille meeting 6-8 December 2009, The Spectators

European partners present:

- Associación Finmatun  (Esp): Rita Stivala (producer), José Gonzalez Morandi (filmmaker)

- TRANSFormas (Esp): Thomas Louvat (coordinator, drama director)

- Cooperative sociale e.s.t.i.a. (It.) : Michelina Capato (Coordinator, drama director), Gabriele Raimondi (filmmaker)

- Unter Wasser Fliegen (All.) : Kordula Lobeck de Fabris (coordinator, artistic director), Andreas Passon (filmmaker)

- Westerdals School of Communication (Nor.): Morten Thomte (coordinator, teacher and filmmaker) , Rodrigo Stoicheff (teacher and filmmaker)

INA partners present :

- Mireille Maurice, Regional delegete INA Méditerranée

- Marie-Christine Hélias-Sarre, Chief documentalist

Partner in Marseille-Provence 2013 :

Nathalie Cabrera, Chargée des actions pour la participation citoyenne (citizenship actions)

Partners in Système Friche Théâtre :

- Philippe Foulquié, Director

- Béatrice Simonet, Secrétaire générale

- Matthieu Colotte, Secrétaire général adjoint

Partners present from the Prison administration:

- M. Patrick Mounaud, Directeur Interrégional des Services Pénitentiaires

- Mme Florence Gagneux, représentant le Service Pénitentiaire d’Insertion et de Probation

- M. Thierry Alvès, Directeur du Centre pénitentiaire de Marseille

- M. Jean-Paul Gagneux, Directeur du centre pour peines aménagées, Centre pénitentiaire de Marseille

Ateliers de Formation et d’Expression Audiovisuelles au Centre pénitentiaire de Marseille :

The 8 inmate learners of the cinema Workshops participated to this meeting.

Lieux Fictifs team:

- Caroline Caccavale, Coordinator of « Borders, inside-outside »

- Clément Dorival, Coordinator of « The Spectators », filmmaker

- Jean-Pierre Cellard, Production director

- Sophie Dominique, Communication

- Leïla Delannoy, Student

- Pierre Poncelet, Assistant filmmaker

- Kannan Thirunavukkarasu, Editor

- Franck Vernet, Administrator

Sunday December 6th: Meeting on the archives corpus

Discussions around the archives corpus before the meeting with the INA on the following day.

This meeting must help to determine the thematic of the archives corpus and permit to each partner to expose its situation/difficulties in the development of the Spectators workshop.

During the meeting, the “rules of the games” were discussed. For some (Spain), evocation of a fear of a rigidity in the Spectators disposal. Lieux Fictifs reminded that all partners validated the project and that these rules are just the translation of the framework that the financial partners accepted to support (Marseille-Provence 2013, INA, and if it works, Culture & Cooperation).

This fear expressed pointed out the incomprehension/misunderstanding that could appear between partners, and consequently, the necessity to take time not to let some questions without answer. Even if there is a common rule and concept at the beginning, each partner will have the possibility to confront itself to this, to wonder about it…

The definition of processes of work, of the “work in progress” is free for each partner, as each one can find a new way to work from archives. But, out of the “work in progress”, the films made from this artistic experience (final work) must be fundamentally made of archives. This implies for each partner to find some way to transgress, play, work with the constraint by using sound, editing… and when it will be the moment, the collective creation of a scenography (installation) to show the works together.

This meeting permitted to point out the complexity of this project (linked to the desires, wills, understandings that each partner has of the project) and to put the first step: the common choice of archives to constitute the corpus that be the material of work for each partner.

The first order of archives images will have to be done in January, in order to get them on the first week of February (starting of the work in Norway).

Mireille Maurice and Marie-Christine Hélias-Sarre presented the INA activities and showed a short film about the INA work.

Presentation of the European partners and the French partners that will work on the “Spectators” workshop outside the prison:

- Natacha Cyrulnik, who will work with a group of foreigner just arrived in France (in special class to learn French)

- Dominique Comtat, who will work with students from the School of Landscapes in Marseille

- The “Instants video” represented by Naïk Msili, which are associated to Lieux Fictifs on this project to develop till 2013 workshops in Mediterranean area with partners from their network (certainly in Egypt, Palestine or Turkey).

•  The legal framework of the project

INA exposed the historic of their collaboration with Lieux Fictifs: started since 3 years, at the beginning to make a work from archives in the Cinematographic workshops inside the prison of Marseille. For this, it was necessary to invent a partnership. This partnership authorizes a filmmaker chosen for a specific period of work in the workshops, to choose a corpus of archives images from the INA to work with trainers inside the prison.

But when the work if finished and take the shape of a film, designed to be screened outside, the partnership is over and become a coproduction contract. These screenings are made in specific networks (cultural, scientific and institutional). If the production is made with a commercial exploitation at the end, it is a classic coproduction contract that is signed.

The INA is also collaborating with inmates in another way, since 15 years: archives restoration, essentially for sound, made in prison workshops, in 3 prisons in France.

In the frame of “Borders, inside-outside”, the INA will extend the partnership already developed with Lieux Fictifs to the European level, and wish to help, if necessary, to encourage publics broadcasters/TV from partner countries to do the same. For this, the INA needs to know what are the wills and needs of each European partner.

The INA explained some elements of its website, directed to professionals:

Concerning the availability of documents concerning the rights aspect, for the “news” subject, no problem. But for the “production subjects” (subjects with artists, actors, musicians, orchestra…), the INA judiciaries services need to make an inquiry on the rights question. This can lead to a non availability of the document. All the documents asked could not be given.

• Order and research organisation

The INA proposed to give first documents with TC appearing on image, to control their use. Lieux Fictifs wonder on this step which is going to make heavier the already complex process of work.

Lieux Fictifs will centralise the orders of each partner concerning the constitution of the corpus. It is necessary to ask for more then 20 documents in order to let the INA time to deal with it and to give us the images within 15 days.

A “document” is an archive subject with its own title, date and a reference (a reference can have several extracts on the same document, but this will only count as one single document).

A maximum of 20 hours of archives could be ask for one year.

Demonstration on how to search on the INA website. The infos given by each partner on good practices to use the website are welcome!

The basket in the INA website is a common space of work for archives research and constitution of the corpus. It gives details on research, according to each country and each thematic.

First order will have to be made at the beginning of January, to get images on time for the beginning of the work in Oslo in February. The choice of documents has to be made at the end of December.

• Meeting in the different countries and wishes to associate television funds

• Contracting: two times
  

   Lieux Fictifs and each partner will sign a contract of development for the     “Spectators workshop”, including the use of archives and the accompaniment on the project.

1. Coproduction contract between Lieux Fictifs and the INA concerning the rights of archives chosen in the final work that will be screened.

      Lieux Fictifs, producer delegate, will sign a contract with each of the coproducer partner for    the final film screened.

For all these conventions and contracts, a meeting will be organised to define precisely all the aspects of the rights issue. 

The communication around the project must also be defined with rules that will be mentioned in contracts also. 

Remark: Gathering all the necessary logos for all partners and make a common work document.

 Monday December 7^th, afternoon:  Meeting with the Prison Administration

Then, meeting with Florence Gagneux, Service Pénitentiaire d’Insertion et de Probation.

I. Conference on education in prison organised by the European Commission in Budapest, February 2010.

E.S.T.I.A for Italy (coordinator of the Grundtvig learning partnership “ Theatre and education” 2007-2009) and Lieux Fictifs for France (coordinator of the Grundtvig learning partnership “ Education and audiovisual creation” 2007-2009) will attend the conference. We do not know already for Spain and Germany. The Education central Agency (Brussels) could invite prison administrations of different coutries.

II. Essen 2010, European capital of Culture. In this frame, Unter Wasser Fliegen will organise an exhibition in a former prison for refugees. 4 floors and around 30 cells can be occupied for exhibitions: photo, painting, video, media, libraru… from the 2^nd of May till Spetember 2010. Once a month will be organised a week-end during which specifis events will take place (theatre play, show, screenings…), and prison director can organise some special outgoing for prisoners as this former prison still offer some security conditions.

The works from the partners must be arrived in Essen for May 2010.

Kordula Lobeck underlined the fact that there is a movement in favour of giving a specific place to culture in prison, and not only making it part of education, and also a movement to to develop non formal education in the artistic experience.

A round table is planned, to gather cultural and prison institutions from the partner countries. From now on, the dates evocated for this round table are 22-23 of Spetember, or 24-25 of Spetember 2010 (to be precise later).

At this occasion, it could be interesting to think about a more “intimate” meeting between different prison administrations to reach a deeper reflexion. From this meeting could be found some thematics that could be presented during the more official round table, more opened.

III. Marseille June 2011 : it will be a first time to prepare 2013, to share with the public the process of work, and not only the final creation. The issue will be to confront the different processes of work, with prisoners, public, artists and insitutions. There will be transmission of the already existing works of partner countries, and also invited ones, but also the “work in progress” will be shown, and two round tables will be hold on two thematics to precise (exemples: cultural action, non formal education in artistic experience, archive as a material of artistic education…)

This event must also have repercussion inside prisons of the area of Marseille.

For the “outside” part of the event, it will be at the Friche Belle de Mai.  “Système Friche Theâtre” (SFT) and Marseille-Provence 2013 will be coproducers of the event.

For the “inside” part of the event, necessary to develop a reflexion with the prison administration: which prisons of the area could be concerned? Necessary to have places to suitable for show, exhibitions, screenings… so necessary to make some technical sheet for each prison.

Nathalie Cabrera, from Marseille-Provence 2013, precise that 2011 will be a first step before 2013, and proposed to include in the event other cultural actions made in prison.

Will to involve prison staff and judges in this event, to share a reflexion with them.

Florence Gagneux also underlines the interest to involve the European network of prison administration schools.

Points to be solved:

Important : each partner must make its prison institutions mors sensitive to these questions.

Bernard Latarjet, director of Marseille-Provence 2013, is convinced that it is necessary to reach that step. But necessary to start now to feel what the limits would be.

Florence Gagneux will make some technical sheets for the prison of the Marseille-Provence 2013 area, to evaluate the possibilities to host creations in 2011.

Issues : How to welcome prisoners from other countries, what are the availability of each prison ?

Evening: visit of the Friche La Belle de Mai, of the different places with Beatrice Simonet (Système Friche Théâtre)

Tuesday 8^th December morning: meeting inside the Cinematographic workshop, Prison of Marseille

Mr. Thierry Alvés, director of the prison of Marseille was supposed to welcome us, but due to traffic jam, we were too late, so it was Mr. Gagneux who welcomed us instead of him.

The inmate learners of the Workshop presented their work on archives. Before that, Clément remind that at this step, the work in still on, in progress. This meeting is for the group the occasion to wonder collectively on their project, but they are also putting themselves on risk, accepting to share their creative process with the European partners.

Clement remind that the process of work started with the group in 2009. During a first time, a collective reflexion was conducted to define the archives corpus from the “Borders” thematic. The Berlin Wall was chosen by the group (from its building till its fall). Then a screening had been organised, without sound. From this point, each learner started its own project of gilm, some from images that had been touching them, others from a text they wrote. Pierre Poncelet, in the frame of the Image education workshop, fed the reflexion proposing to the group viewing of films linked to the different projects. Today, the projects of films are at different steps: some are almost finished, other are still in work.

The different works of the inmate learners, from the images of the Berlin Wall :

Guy : a film on the Berlin wall. “Everyone has its own ideas, its way of thinking. At the beginning, the Berlin Wall did not interest me. For personal reasons, it is even quite hard for me to talk about this wall. But as I must give my opinion on this wall, I agreed to work on this constraint, and in the collective interest, to wonder on my feeling of this wall”.

Clement reminded that at the beginning of the Spectator workshop, they work on images selection, viewing of images without sound: Guy reaction’s was the indifference, but formulated with lots of emotions. So Clément proposed him to work on this indifference and to link the History to his own life-story. So this drives to work also on pardon and omission. Compared to the omnipresence of “emotions” around the Wall on the news, it was an interesting point of view.

Ibrahim : « For me, what emerges was the question of choice (capitalism v. communism). The Berlin Wall gave the possibility to peoples and the world to experience two political systems, capitalism and communism. Its fall imposed capitalism to the whole world. The fall of the wall is according to me the end of choice and diversity”.

Dimitri : every one work on the same images and every one has its own way to deal with them. With Sacha, they decided to make the same film using the same images: “we are childhood friends, we com from the same country, Kazakhstan; we both left it to live in Germany, and today we are in prison together. But our work was focused on the defence of different positions. For Dimitri, the fall of the wall event permitted to go back to its native country, in Germany. On his side, Sacha defends a position linked to his affection/attachment to the communist regime. To deal with this thematic for them is like dealing with an object which played an important role in their life. Same film, same editing, but different points of view. They also wrote their film together: each text evolved according to the work of the other one. Languages used were German, French and Russian. 

Lee : in his films, he develops the idea that walls are everywhere, that we are all surrounded by walls, mental or physical. There are several walls in human brain, which drove to the building of walls worldwide. Lee does not look for a conclusion, he just wants to ask a question. Clement helped him not to conclude something but more to question this issue. He would like to use Chinese language and music in his film.

Youssouf : he read us the text he wrote for his film. Hs is thinking about his life, place of living (districts in city) that determines the life-path of a person, of its self-building personality. He is thinking about the territory from which we come from (Youssouf text, in French, is attached).

Franco : wondering on prison, imprisonment, walls, prisons, districts. He is thinking on the life-path of persons, on the district are determing on the life of someone. Why do we find the same young persons in prison? Wondering on social determinism.

Michel : makes a parallel with the text by Bernard-Marie Koltès « Dans la solitude des champs de coton », with the  border between client / dealer; yes / no; black / white: “the incertain border”. He is thinking on the present instant, a kind of runaway present, the choice and happiness. Text about the difficulty to live the present instant. He focus on a specific image, the one of the soldier crossing the wall: the single moment of happiness is the picture of the soldier. As long as the soldier is on air, he is living a runaway moment of happiness. As soon as he is touching the ground, he is back in reality. Happiness is like a moment in the air, not before and not after.

Caroline underlines the work of author developped by learners to build their thought, speech, way of looking the world. The images must permit us to appropriate the world and to put a look on it that we will share with the others. This is a work of author and not only of actor.

Then Clément proposed each partner to evocate where they are in the process of work in « The spectators ».

Spain : They shared with prisoners questions in order to chose archives images : what is a border ? what is a wall? The wall as an obstacle. Building of borders like something necessary. Work on the ideas of territory… which also brings to the issue of war. Consequently, archives thematic : all kinds of wall, especially in Latin America.

Norway : First wonder was : which images can gather all partners of the project, inside and outside ? The landing and first step on the Moon: nobody has never experienced this, so everyone is equal confronting to this issue. This let lots of possibilities to use the Moon as a metaphor (of main choices someone has to do in life…)

Italy : at the beginning of the project right now. So they did not already chose images. More a technical training right now to give learners the tools to do the work. Idea: to work with images of dogs in chain: they can’t see the border, but they are experiencing it everyday as they can’t go where they want, stopped by their chain.

Germany : project on acting and filming, lyric clips, clips rap. Borders in the meaning of limits. The work will be developed with a group of young persons “in danger”.

 Tuesday 8^th December afternoon: debriefing

Important things to do : technical sheets/files

1. For the event of 2011, we need to have some synthetic documents on the work that each partner wants to present and what it needs for it. Aim: to have a global vision in order to ask the necessary funding to Marseille-Provence 2013 and to solve all questions of places and technical needs with the Friche Belle de Mai. So please start to think about it from now on.

1. The common project: important to have one or two German video-letters, as VL will be shown. Necessary to think on how to show the VL in 2011 (installation?).

1. Which kinds of round table? We need to invent them.  So, necessary to get a document with proposal of subject for the round tables.

We must imagine the kind of presentation of the finished work and « work in progress » each country will propose. We need these elements for June 2010 at latest (to book places in the Friche).

The communication issue is also to be shared together: how will we communicate together, on a global way? A mobility will have to be planned to discuss this issue: the communication identity of the project.   Each country will have to give its compulsory logos, etc… and validate the final choice.

For the moment, we have to solve the paper, press, institution and public communication. We need to get a text presentation of each structure.

For the communication budget, we will ask funding to Marseille-provence 2013, and also, if we gets the funding of “Culture & cooperation” a part will be dedicated to communication (creation of a website…)

Production issue for “The Spectators”

Two hypothesis for the production process of “The Spectators”:

• With the support of « Culture & Cooperation » programme (answer in April 2010)
• Without the support of « Culture et Cooperation »

Lieux Fictifs will be the “producteur délégué” (Lieux Fictifs being the single responsible in front of INA of the use and exploitation of archive) because LF is already linked by a contract with INA. So 2 steps: a contract between INA and LFn then a contract between LF and each of the partners (who will then all be coproducers).

Beeing « producteur délégué » : beeing responsible to develop till the end the Spectator project, in front of the financial partners (INA, etc.)

Being coproducer : to participate with other producers to the production of a film.

Each partner commits itself with Lieux Fictifs to develop till the end the production of short films made from archives. Lieux Fictifs brings coordination of production, exploitation rights for archives, and transmission/screenings in Marseille in 2013. The coproducer brings its organisation and technical resources, wages and exploitation rights for the cineaste/videast driving the project in its structure, as well as co-authors exploitation rights (prisoners involved on participants from outside). The co-ownership part of the film(s) is divided according to what will be brought by each of the coproducer.

This responsibility obliges Lieux Fictifs to guarantee all the rights in the production of the films.  During the development time, till April 2010, waiting the answer of “Culture & cooperation”, we are only making some development work, and no production.

Production period: if without “Culture & cooperation”, we will have to talk about how to do the project without this funding, what kind of solutions could be found? Lieux Fictifs and all the partners will have to rally to find other funding.

The INA is partner in the frame of the Grundtvig learning partnership “Education, cinema and archives”, so for the use of archives during the process of work, as well as for the “work in progress”.

But we are not in an exploitation of archives system, in which creation of a film will be an end. The creation of a film as an end of the process will require signing another contract with the INA. In this case, it will not be a process of work, but a production of work to be screened: consequently, it will be necessary to make a coproduction contract with each partner précising the exploitation rights included.

Grundtvig : learning and pedagogical project.

Of course this will help us to build film, as it gives us the means to develop the process.

With « Culture & Cooperation », we will have the means/ressources to make several films. So we will need a new contract with the INA to get exploitation rights for archives in video installations, screenings, broadcasting on internet, etc. So INA will be coproducer of the project on that time, as the rights INA will bring will be equivalent to money.

For the films made, we have the rights to show them in pedagogical context, in non commercial context. But if we want to bring them in an exploitation system, we need to send them to the INA judiciaries’ services that will make an inquiry, will propose a fare (coproduction) and will propose a new contract including this.

So, for both political and artistic reasons; we established this:

- Grundtvig : « work in progress », the process onward

- Culture & Coopération : the films made from the « works in progress », the finality/purpose of the project.

For the exploitation rights of « works in progress », necessary to ask for them thinking about the delay required to get an answer and a contract from the INA. Exemple: a partner wishes to show 3 films relating to “work in progress” in 2011. It must give them to Lieux Fictifs; we will check with the INA the rights questions and will sign a contract with INA to screen them.

1^st Retro-planning :